NEW YORK | Penn Station


True, but I hope that MSG will finally come down. Penn is horrible, and for that matter, so is MSG. I have no idea what they spent $1B on. The place is a dump.


Penn and that area immediately surrounding it gives me anxiety lol. Horrible during rush hour. Manhattan West and Hudson Yards couldn’t come soon enough.


The area has very good bones.

A new Penn would precipitate a massive renaissance.

I periodically ride the LIRR during the day for trips to Minneola and Jamaica, and it’s heinous.

MSG, which is the worst arena in sports, must go.


Very interesting… I truly thought any hope for MSG to be moved and rebuilt was gone. It used to be that the entire far west side was a blank canvas… as development has progressed, the only site large enough to hold MSG is Related’s HY Phase II. Even that site, though, seems to have been planned out at least in regards to massing and does not include a building envelope big enough for MSG (yet). Related has an excellent relationship with the Dolan Family who controls MSG. Thoughts?


MSG will eventually be demolished and redeveloped. Lease runs out in 2023, and no one but the Dolans wants MSG to stay.


I think, however, that there was some way around that deadline. Maybe it was just a unilateral extension by the governor.


The limited time for the renewal lease was approved by the City Council (I think) a couple of years ago. Since the city owns some of the land interests (I think) they are involved. At that time there was a consensus that Penn Station’s renewal also required removal of MSG. We’ll see.


I remember that part, but I also remember that that alone didn’t seal MSG’s coffin. It was reported that MSG could somehow survive there. I think it involved a unilateral extension from the governor, which, apparently, he’s authorized to do.

Anyway, this heinous PoS must go, and I hope the city uses eminent domain to raze the horrible block on the east side of 7th between 33rd and 34th.

It’s all an embarrassment to NY.

This horrible garbage on the south side of 34th between 6th and 7th must go too.


@robertwalpole the good news is that Vornado has a ton of plans for the area including an overhaul of 32-33 btwn 6&7, the buildings surrounding MSG, and their 34 St holdings


Thanks, Skyward.

What’s 32-33? I assume you’re not referring to 32 W 34th, the heinous PoS next to the ESB, which is owned by the nefarious Estate of Sol Goldman. That estate owns so much garbage which should be urgently redeveloped.


While it would be best for MSG it move, it can hardly be called a dump anymore. The renovation made it state if the art, though it lost the charm it had before it was remodeled. It is still one of the oldest arenas used in the country, thus it had a nostalgic feel too it. That being said, it should move a few blocks away


Sorry- 32nd to 33rd Street. The Manhattan Mall / Hotel Penn Block.


Not sure if this is allowed but I follow this group called Rebuild Penn Station. Anyway they are hosting a panel in the Upper West Side in a few weeks discussing the future of Penn if anyone is interested.


I’ve recall seeing this movement before. I honest to god hope they can find a way to make this happen.


I follow them too. Sadly, the worst arena in sports won’t move, and Penn will remain a pos.


couldn’t agree more


news regarding the renovation of One Penn…

People’s United Bank, N.A. has signed a lease for a new retail branch to be located a Vornado Realty Trust’s PENN1 (formerly One Penn Plaza) which is currently being redeveloped with a new streetscape enhancement as well as a new lobby and amenity spaces.


Would it be feasible to put MSG underground and Penn Station above?


No. The tracks and platforms can’t be moved, and the rest of the station needs to be right above the tracks and platforms to be practical.

Putting MSG under the tracks would be the world’s largest blasting project (or close to it), through some of the hardest solid rock. And you couldn’t put it right under the tracks and platforms; you’d have to put it very deep under the tracks and platforms, for the tracks and platforms to remain supported with a giant open space below them. Not to mention the huge shafts needed for entry/exit, emergency egress, and ventilation, for that many people, placed around the tracks and platforms, would be insane… You’d need almost a whole Manhattan city block just for the access shafts, at which point you might as well build the arena at street level on the block you demolished.


Thanks for the info! This is why I’m not in charge :rofl: