NEW YORK | 200 Greenwich St (2WTC) | 1,348 FT | 88 FLOORS | ON HOLD


#1168

I wonder if Silverstein is courting any large startups? One just inked a huge deal in Hudson Yards.

The exact square footage of the lease wasn’t immediately clear, but sources said it could be in the range of 300,000 to 350,000 square feet.


#1169

The choice of design may be based in large part on who the anchor tenant ends up as. One could make an argument that the Foster design would have greater appeal to a conservative organization such as an investment bank, while Ingels’ design would seem to fit more of a tech company-type.


#1170

BIG’s design looks childish, short-sighted, and completely uninspired by the solemn location it would sit on.

It was a rushed response to get a deal inked with Fox and looks cartoonish from every angle but one. I think, if built, it will be perhaps the most hated building in the city.

And why would you put a building that literally looks like it’s toppling over on a site where buildings toppled over? Is it to serve as a daily reminder of the tragedy?


#1171

This may not be the most appropriate place to discuss this topic, but when will the St. Nicholas church be completed? It’s simply not possible that the Greek Orthodox Church does not have the ability to raise the necessary funds through wealthy donor members, etc. The exterior seems very near complete. I do not believe that this is solely a matter of lack of funds. Fund-raising to complete a project like this would not be an issue provided there was the requisite willpower behind it.


#1172

Believe me as one who’s been following this very closely, the GO Archdiocese of N and S America had the funds to do this; but there’s been a crap-ton of chicanery, skullduggery and general malfeasance afoot within the that brought this to a screeching halt.

And it ain’t gonna get fixed anytime soon…neither this project nor the worsening scandal in the GOASA. But yeah…that’s something else.


#1173

I think it would be a real shame if the structure is left standing there, indefinitely shrouded in covering. I can’t accept that people would sit by, watch this happen, and just shrug their shoulders. Are any of the principals of major NYC developers Church members? Heck, I’ll ask around myself. It’s just very sad.


#1174

The billionaire John Catsimatidis has taken up this task like it was a crusade, good man. A small number of the wealthiest names in real estate are active members of the Church. Catsimatidis is one person, and he may have too much history within the Church to be effective. These other names should really be tapped to join the crusade.


#1175

Moving on, does anyone have a short list of possible anchor tenants for 2 WTC? There are only so many possible organizations with the size and financial means to get this tower built. And I’m not talking about wishful thinking like Amazon.


#1176

I was hoping for Morgan Stanley or Deutsche Bank.

I still think 2 WTC will rise next cycle, in early 2020’s.

Some of the surrounding towers have gained tenants in the last two years (Zurich) for example in 4 WTC, and some in 1 WTC. I think 2 WTC is banking on one large tenant, but maybe the focus should be negotiations with smaller tenants until X % of required sq-ft is realized to make it happen. Eventually, filling up over time.

Like WTC original, and 1 WTC, it takes time to fill them up, but 2 WTC’s problem is the initial commitment. Banking on a high sq-ft leasing tenant, which is very hard to land, especially with Midtown West being competitive.


#1177

The latest news is that A might divide HQ2 between NOVA, NYC, and Dallas.


#1178

Thanks for your post. I didn’t put too much stock in any of the investment banks or other large financial firms because that would be bucking the exodus trend that’s been ongoing for decades. But as the staid, old investment banks have left (with the notable exception of Goldman Sachs which apparently will never leave), other companies in different industries move in. It would be great if this area of Downtown became a hotbed of companies that actually make something besides mounds of paper. When you see the ugly and mismatched buildings that tech companies like Google and Facebook currently occupy in New York, Downtown is a much better looking alternative that can offer those comapnies the square footage they need.


#1179

To your point about how it takes time to fill vacancies, I think that depends a lot on the desirability of the location and the building as well as the skill of the developer. For instance, 50 Hudson Yards isn’t scheduled to be completed until 2022 and yet it already has BlackRock signed as an anchor tenant. 30 Hudson Yards is supposed to be completed by 2019 and has a number of high profile tenants signed. However, those tenants are primarily the same old finance types that create nothing. WarnerMedia is one notable exception to that otherwise boring list. Is Silverstein Properties, with its little cadre of less than 150 employees, capable of going up against these other developers in securing the best tenants? I’m beginning to doubt they are. I hope they prove me wrong.


#1180

2 WTC is a notable case study. Its asking price will be absorbent for sq-ft/$.

Plus at the going rate, it’ll cost 4 billion just to build, and as time goes by, we may see it swell to 5 billion as construction costs rise. Every day this drags on, only adding further to the costs.

That’s the plus with Midtown West, prices are generally much lower. Downtown is still good, but 2 WTC specifically is not a representation of the “whole downtown”, more site-specific cost wise.

1 Manhattan West is offering really good rates. I expect tower 2 MW to offer similar rates. Hard to complete. I wish I could find it, but I had a list of prices at the complex. If I recall, it was under $65/sq-ft, which is great for MW 1.


#1181

Those are very good points. I seem to recall reading about government subsidies included as part of the deal for 2 WTC when the anchor tenant was going to be Fox. That seems only fitting given the circumstances. I believe there could be an opportunity here for the federal and state governments to step in and sweeten any deal for potential tenants given their massive resources. I for one would be thankful to be able to see my hefty tax burden being put to such good use.


#1182

Any chance that Fox could still anchor this one?

They signed at lease at their current building for 5 years which starts in 2020. I could totally see them looking here again if this hasn’t started construction by then.


#1183

I’ve thought that all along.


#1184

Disclaimer: What follows is a joke even though the facts are, sadly, true:

Given how the Saudis are once again making complete fools of themselves on the world stage, perhaps the new de facto ruler, Prince Mohammed Bin Salman, could be enticed to foot the bill for building 2 WTC. This 33-year-old jackass has already shown he’s dumb enough to squander his nation’s money by paying half a billion dollars for Salvator Mundi. His latest calamity - the murder of a journalist living in the U.S. by a gaggle of buffoons on his orders - shows just how dumb he is. In exchange for helping him maintain his grip on power in his joke of a country, the U.S. government should bilk the Saudis for as many billions as possible and use part of that money to subsidize the completion of 2 WTC.


#1185

On a more serious note, my impression of the federal, state, and local subsidies given to Silverstein Properties is that they were not as generous as one might expect given this was a massive rebuilding effort following an attack on the state. In my opinion, this goes far, far beyond politics.

If government subsidies to the developer are too draconian and stingy, I can see how a developer might not be as hard-driving to complete a major development. I can also see how the developer would pass on their high costs for completed buildings to tenants, making any new development less attractive and dragging out the process of selling out all available space.


#1186

^^^You seem like a newer member, but a lot of your posts just feel really trollish and full of annoying political stuff that I feel like a lot of us on here try to avoid. I for one love being on here cause it’s an escape from Facebook and the news. It’s nothing but architecture and skyscrapers on here and that’s all that matters.


#1187

I’m sorry you don’t like some of my posts. I would like to see 2 WTC finished and for years there’s been only a foundation for one of two possible designs. I stand by my post on government subsidies to Silverstein and rebuilding the WTC site because I want to see it built, whether that’s with Foster’s, Ingel’s, or someone else’s design. I don’t think commenting on something like that is “trollish” although because it involves the government I suppose by definition it has a political element. I’ve read some of your comments and some of your posts sound like they fall in the two categories you mentioned. My opinion is that’s fine, write what you want. In general, if I read something here that I think is off topic or distasteful, I pass it by.

My post on having the Saudis pay for the construction costs may have been in bad taste and not appropriate for this forum and probably more a function of a recent conversation with colleagues about the Khashoggi story currently in the news.